Animal House Detour And Setup

Craig 0:02

You're listening to Basket Traffic.

Shawn 0:08

Animal Farm? I thought we were doing the classic comedy Animal House 1978. Yes. Are we not doing Animal House?

Craig 0:18

We could.

Shawn 0:19

It's way better than Animal Farm. And I've got like four pages of uh I've got what? Why are you pointing at me?

Craig 0:27

Can you get close to the microphone?

Shawn 0:28

Oh, for fuck's sakes. We're not doing Animal House.

Craig 0:41

Uh we can uh if you want to.

Shawn 0:45

I'm pretty sure I can cross over Animal House with Animal Farm somehow. Yeah, like I can cross over into the Russian Revolution somehow. I think I can compare the two. Yeah. I bet you can't I think because I think I can do the fraternities are the uh political parties.

Craig 1:02

That's good.

Shawn 1:03

Okay, so Delta is like what the working class? Delta, the Delta Pi. And then the Omegas are like the upper class. Right. There's even a revolt because they take over the parade at the end.

Craig 1:14

Shit, we're onto something.

Shawn 1:16

And so, and then what the dean of of the school would would be like what? The uh Romanovs or the or would he be Stalin? I don't know.

Craig 1:25

It's been a long time.

Shawn 1:26

Have you ever seen Animal House?

Craig 1:27

I have.

Shawn 1:28

You would have watched And if I knew they were doing directed by John Landis. Uh written by Harold Ramos, too, of course, from Second City and Canada. And this is way better than Animal Farm. So let's just go with this. Yeah, you're not wrong. I'm worried about John Belushi, too. In my research, there was a lot of partying going on, so I hope he's okay.

Craig 1:52

So here we are, Animal Farm. I'm the one who'd initiated this.

Shawn 1:56

What the fuck did he ever do?

Craig 1:58

And I'm excited for it.

Shawn 2:00

I don't know. Excited for it.

Craig 2:02

I'm the only one

Shawn 2:03

I think he has an erection right now.

Susie 2:05

I think you're the only one.

Shawn 2:06

Susie, I don't know if you know this about your husband, but fuck. Speaking of animals, he's like a dog on a bone when he gets his mind wrapped around something.

Susie 2:14

Uh yeah.

Shawn 2:15

I wanted to do Michael. I thought Michael Jackson, you know, but then, you know, we we sort of came off of that. But and man, he was just dead set on Animal Farm to the point where he had us going to like a 10 30 movie out way out, like an hour and a half drive out at night.

Susie 2:32

I nixed that, just so you know. If you already didn't, I was like, I can't go.

Shawn 2:38

It it you might as well have told me, hey, we're getting on a red eye to Bangkok tonight. That's pretty much the equivalent of going to see a movie at 10: 30 at night for me.

Susie 2:46

Yeah. I mean, we did do it that one time for um Project Hail Mary. Project Hail Mary, but that was during It was local too. It was the break. We we we were on a break from work, so there was it was we'd slapped it.

Shawn 3:00

That was right next door, too. That theater is very close.

Craig 3:02

To my credit, I was not anticipating the movie Animal Farm being placed in so few theaters.

Shawn 3:08

Box office.

Craig 3:09

So they knew they knew that this would be shit from the beginning.

Susie 3:13

Well, and then you guys ditched me and went at a time that I couldn't go.

Shawn 3:16

So Well, there was one showing. I didn't see this is another, this is another red flag. There was one showing of this this movie at 310 or three something. That's always a bad sign.

Craig 3:28

I know. Well, first of all, uh the trip we went together, Shawn, and we know took transit, public transit. Yeah, we made, I mean, we this was a trip. We were dedicated to this fucking movie.

Shawn 3:37

You were dedicated to this movie.

Craig 3:39

I and then I was dedicated to this movie.

Shawn 3:41

We went and saw it uh in a questionable neighborhood as well. That's the only place we could go see it.

Craig 3:46

Yeah, yeah. It looks like a homeless shelter and abandoned and Jesus, it looks like apocalyptic, to be honest with you.

Shawn 3:53

Yeah, and well, it's it's really sad because it was a great uh place when it opened it. Now it's just all um like cell phone accessory stores. It's like literally every two stores is just a guy selling like you know something you put your cell phone in. And I'm like, how did they survive? I know it's a booming market.

Susie 4:11

There's like a hundred thousand of them in there, like and then everyone's just people lying all over.

Craig 4:16

So we uh walked in, uh had to fight through the crowds. Yeah, there was to be fair, it was a matinee, and it was a three some 3:45 showing. We walk in.

Shawn 4:26

I have a great picture of it. I do, I should post it. Yes, it's there's no one in the theater because there's four of us. I wanted to take it to remind Craig because he kept saying he was so excited about seeing it. I'm like, you're the only one, literally.

Craig 4:40

So true. So it was us two and two older women.

Shawn 4:45

They were probably teachers because that's what I was thinking.

Craig 4:47

Oh, maybe, maybe English teachers.

Shawn 4:49

They didn't speak to us, yeah. Even I leaned forward and like, hey ladies, what you think so far, huh? They're like, nothing. I she was gonna bear spray me.

Craig 4:58

Yeah, probably. It was all really weird.

Shawn 5:02

You forgot to mention that that that I go to meet this guy at the bus stop and he's got this limp. Yeah. Because he's hurt himself. He's pulled his muscles. So he's limping, and then like, but he's still on a mission. So like we're we're running through downtown to get to this show. He's limping. He's like Dustin Hoffman

The Long Trip To See It

Shawn 5:20

from Midnight Cowboy, right? Like banging on the like, I'm walking here, you know, but limping, right? Like it was quite quite a scene, man. I uh couldn't believe that you dragged me along for that. I had no desire to see this thing. I I did not want to see it.

Susie 5:36

All of this did come from you then, Craig.

Shawn 5:38

Oh, 100%.

Craig 5:39

Absolutely. This is all my fault.

Susie 5:41

Why?

Craig 5:41

Uh why? It's animal farm. It's George Orwell.

Shawn 5:44

He's so fucking excited about this. I go, it's such a Craig thing, right? Because it's it's a social, it's always like the human thing with you. Like, like, fuck, what's your problem, dude? It's like you want to all this break down the social structure and I know, you know, and like the hierarchies and the and I and I'm just like Did you read the book? I I did read the book.

Susie 6:05

In school?

Shawn 6:05

I read the book in school. I don't remember reading the book in school, but I do remember that we got it. So maybe I didn't read the book in school.

Susie 6:13

Well, like we all went to the same school. I didn't read the book. So when it wasn't given to my class.

Shawn 6:20

So when you texted your friend that is a teacher, and you when we were together, you texted him and you said, Hey, are you still reading? Are you still are the students still reading Animal House? No, Animal Farm. Yeah, yeah.

Susie 6:31

So they're living Animal House. They are living animal house.

Craig 6:34

Here's the thing. We were gonna talk today about Animal Farm, the movie, the new one released by Andy Serkis, who is the director. And then we're gonna talk about a George Orwell documentary a little bit, gonna weave it in called two plus two equals five, which Shawn and I have talked about this earlier. Really well done, really interesting. And then uh we're gonna talk about the book itself and the characters. Holy shit, really?

Shawn 6:54

Are we doing all this? We're typing all this.

Craig 6:56

Okay. And we're gonna talk about of the animal characters in Animal Farm, who, which one is most likely Shawn, most likely Susie, and most likely me? Can't wait to see what you guys think about that.

Shawn 7:08

Did I mention, by the way, he he was like a guy going to see the Backstreet Boys, dude? Like he was so excited. He's just like so stoked for this film. And he it was like cosplay. He dressed up like a fucking pig. He's just like, he's like, Napoleon. Four legs are good, two legs are bad.

Craig 7:27

So, yeah, all right. So we're in the movie theater. And anyway, uh you asked me a question, I for I forgot what it was, but it's not important. You texted your teacher friend and asked if that they well, I yeah, I know I was gonna talk about this later, but I might as well just just No, you're gonna talk about it now because I just asked you. So you always promise to talk about it later. The big premise here, and and just so people understand what this is gonna be about Animal Farm was a staple item, I would imagine, for most English classes. And it's all about the warnings about many things, but generally the idea of revolutions that can turn south and then turn into authoritarianism. And that's what Animal Farm is all about.

Shawn 8:06

Tease remind you of any uh podcasts. What do you what are you talking about? I'm surprised you haven't written the podcast rules down on the wall over there. Like get closer to your mics.

Susie 8:20

Sit at this angle facing this way.

Shawn 8:23

Two podcasts are better than one podcast.

Susie 8:26

Napoleon.

Craig 8:28

Uh, fair point.

Shawn 8:29

Sure, go ahead. Please go on with your uh information.

Craig 8:33

Sorry, I just gotta collect myself here for a second. People generally say that this is really one of the greatest political satires books of the 20th century. But uh, we don't do it as much anymore because the curriculum changed to English versus peoples 10, which means, and I'm not making any judgment calls here, I'll save that later when I retire. But essentially the idea is that you get more indigenous literature. So that meant that things like Animal Farm are put aside. So I kind of wonder here, because I'm gonna talk about how Gen Z and millennials have really shifted farther and farther left since 2000, I think it's 10, which is interesting because that's the arrival of social media. And there's been this really kind of interesting shift, quite significant in terms of our generation. I wonder, is that because these books aren't being read anymore and it's the influence of social media? So there's lots of things I want to touch on, but before we get into all the nerding out and the statistics, I want to just go back to the movie theater that we were sitting in, all four of us, and uh, we had to get through what half an hour of commercials?

Shawn 9:43

Yeah, half an hour.

Craig 9:44

I it was just I wanted a I was screaming out.

Shawn 9:47

I was screaming out throughout this. There's another one. There's another one, pointing it out to Craig. Well, those there's another one.

Susie 9:54

Those two ladies. Shawn's becoming Were they looking back at you? Yeah.

Shawn 9:57

They were. Oh, probably and I but at this point I had taken my pants off because and not in a sexual way, just in a comfort way. Yeah, yeah.

Immediate Regret In The Theater

Shawn 10:05

So I had them draped up over the pants beside you.

Craig 10:12

Yeah, and so Shawn was getting progressively irritated, and then it begins. And then I would say within the first 20 minutes, I wanted to leave. It was that fucking bad.

Shawn 10:23

Yeah, and they took uh 15 years. This has been in the the the making. Andy cirkis has been you know putting this together for 15.

Craig 10:32

And for people who don't know who Andy Serkis is, I mean, let's I love Andy Serkis.

Shawn 10:35

Gollum, you know, and he's Andy Serkis is the voice of Gollum, and he's done many other things. He's also in Planet of the Apes, the new Planet of the Apes, he was Caesar, and so he's a really talented actor and a voice actor as well. I mean, an incredible voice actor. If anybody, we were talking about AI last week, and of course, he's playing Gollum. He's one of the first big guys to do that. If anybody should have won an award for anything like that, it should have been him for Lord of the Rings and Gollum, because that performance is unbelievable. So I have immense respect for him. But what I was so disappointed about with Andy was that he's not he directed the film, but I had just assumed he was gonna play Napoleon with that incredible voice of his and that evil voice and that. And I just thought, oh, he's gonna be Napoleon. That's a no-brainer. You said we got Seth Rogan. We got Seth Rogan, which could not have been more of a miscast. Yeah, wow. And we didn't get any of Andy. He plays a rooster or something, and he's got like two lines, and it's like, yeah, and it's it's I so that right away threw me off.

Susie 11:34

The rooster guy got sick, he just filled it.

Shawn 11:36

The rooster guy, it was uh, it was a huge disappointment. Yeah, you you didn't miss anything.

Susie 11:42

Well, no, actually, Craig came back and ranted for quite some time about how terrible it was.

Shawn 11:48

He didn't speak the whole way home on the bus, which was fantastic. But sure. But and I just kept going, I don't know if it helped, but I kept going, I told you so. Yeah, just over and over again.

Craig 11:58

I know, rubbing it in my face. Yeah. I honestly thought because of Andy Serkis that this would actually be more interesting, just generally smart, clever, clever even.

Shawn 12:07

Now, before we get into everything, before we get into everything, do you know who produced or who made who paid for bought this movie?

Craig 12:15

Yeah.

Shawn 12:16

Angel Films.

Craig 12:17

Yeah, right. Small, is it a boutique studio or or whatever?

Shawn 12:20

I don't know, but I just I just know that like most of their stuff is like sort of biblical. So they did some animated stuff, which now I'm certainly not pointing the finger in that direction, but I'm just saying it was just kind of strange. It was like a misfit to me. And then you've got Seth Rogan as the lead guy who has famously come out against religion in in his career.

Craig 12:44

That's right.

Shawn 12:45

And he's also very to the left. He's a very to the left guy. It's so so it's just kind of an interesting. I'm like, did anybody watch this movie at Angel before they bought it?

Craig 12:54

Two things I want to talk about. Uh Animal Farm, like I said earlier, is uh this incredible allegory of the dangers of revolution masquerading as a just a virtuous movement that usually descends into authoritarianism. And I I even want to like be so bold to kind of link it to kind of wokeism, what we've seen today, or the French Revolution, or the Cultural Revolution in the 60s in China. Like there's there's we've human beings have a tendency to get on this virtuous train and then they get a little out of hand and then you start canceling or killing, you know. And here I thought, okay, here's Animal Farm. This is actually a really good movie to come out because we've seen this kind of younger generation shifting left and flirting with neo-Marxism. And maybe this would be a good lesson. And then I'm sitting there and I'm watching this movie that starts off with Napoleon, I think it is, staring at this truck with the door open that says Laughter House. Like that was their like, oh, I've got this creative fucking entrance to this, Laughter House. And then, of course, the door shuts at Slaughterhouse, and like the revolution happens quickly. The revolution being that they overthrew Mr. Jones. No, Mr.

Shawn 14:07

Jones is the who's not in the movie, by the way. He's like in it for one second, which doesn't make any sense at all.

Susie 14:13

So they decided that he's an asshole in the original movie.

Craig 14:16

Yes, he's quite frightening. And he's supposed to be, he's supposed to represent the czarist regime of Russia before it gets overthrown in the revolution in 1917 and the communists take over the Bolsheviks. And what's interesting is that there's supposed to be elements of characters like Mr. Pilkington and Mr. Frederick, who Frederick is supposed to be represent the Nazi regime or the Adolf Hitler, and Pilkington is supposed to be the you know, the Americans and the British, the Western surrounding countries of the farm owners, the you know, the neighboring farm owners. And this is again why uh Animal Farm is considered to be this kind of like really brilliant story about taking animals, giving them all individual characteristics that is so approachable, so clear to understand, then tell the story about the kind of the dangers of watching Napoleon turn this into an authoritarian regime. But Andy Serkis decides to change this a bit. If you could piece it together, because I found the movie so confusing, so stupid in terms of its execution.

Shawn 15:20

Don't hold back.

Craig 15:21

Tell me what you really think. So bad that I could I didn't even want to listen or watch anymore. Not to mention, I think there's the production value.

Shawn 15:29

It looked like a Saturday morning cartoon, like that you would put your kid down in front of, like that was like three or four years old, you know, like kind of just cheap. And do they still have Saturday morning cartoons? Probably not. I don't know. I don't know. I but you know, it's like what it was like.

Craig 15:46

Yeah. Like the 1950s, you know, we watched the in 1984.

Shawn 15:48

The 1954 one is so good. So good. It's true to the book, and it's frightening, and it's like you said, uh, Mr. Jones is quite scary. Yeah. And I I loved it. I was so glad to find that. And and so that's what good that came out of this is that I found that. And then I heard I heard that that was sort of produced or it was funded by the CIA, that 1954 one.

Susie 16:11

Oh, really?

Shawn 16:12

To to combat uh to communism. I guess it was during the Cold War, right? So absolutely. So that was put together, but it's it's so it's very true to the book.

Craig 16:21

And it's also in line with the whole McCarthy era.

Shawn 16:24

I will tell you that the animated one had some poignant moments. I was quite surprised, like uh when the uh snowball is chased by the dogs, which are I guess the secret police, right? Yeah, and and and it's quite disturbing, like like they're gonna they're gonna go kill this little pig. That that is not in the movie. Uh in the movie, the he just goes on vacation, he just kind of is disappears. And there's there's no and then when Boxer is taken away in in the in the in the truck, and they're they're all screaming at him. Benjamin is screaming, you know, you get out, you know, it's the glue truck, get out. And then he realizes and he's trying to kick his way out of the truck. Yeah, I mean that that was that's stuck with me. That is scarring. And I'm you know, I I'm not you know 12 years old. I'm you know, but I was I was I was hit by that. And that the new one is like just so silly and stupid. It's not even entertaining to any age group. No, no, it's like they tried to do too much and it's silly and ended up accomplishing nothing.

Susie 17:27

Nothing.

Shawn 17:27

And then they go, Well, we're gonna do animal farm, but we don't want to offend anybody, and we don't want to be over political. We don't, it's animal farm, dude. That's that's what you have to do.

Craig 17:38

Yeah, you can't betray the source material of George Orwell.

Susie 17:42

Or you can call it another name if you don't want it to call it something else.

Shawn 17:47

That's what I was thinking. I was saying you don't name it Animal Farm. You say inspired by Animal Farm. Like, look at 10 Things I Hate About You. Have you ever seen that film with Heath Ledger? It's great. You should see it. It's a great romantic comedy, but it's based on Taming of the Shrew. But they didn't call it Taming of the Shrew because then people would rip the rip it apart. Or how about um Oh brother We're out though by the Cohen Brothers? That's based on the Odyssey, right? Which is coming soon out to theaters again. And they didn't call it the Odyssey, they called it Old Brother We're Out There. And this is the thing they should have done with us. Although, you know, they had to call it that because nobody two people want to come, not four, to that showing. Well, and I have a tired English teacher. Yeah, yeah. I remember the guy at the front selling his popcorn, and he's like, Really? What what movie are you going to see? Really? Oh tumbleweed blows through the fucking theater.

Craig 18:38

That's quite literally what it felt

How The New Movie Breaks Orwell

Craig 18:40

like. And it was that bad. Five million was its first week gross income.

Shawn 18:44

Okay, it's five million. And look, that this had good voice actors, by the way. Seth Rogan, Woody Harrelson, Steve Bashimi, Glenn Close, Kieran Calkin, Kathleen Turner. I mean, so many great voices. It's just like you know, huh?

Craig 19:00

Surprisingly bad.

Shawn 19:01

And you know what? I get Seth Rogan, that that laugh he does, which has made him so much money. And I love the studio that he's in the studio, and I love all those shows. It's a Pedro Pascal thing. I wanted it, I wanted uh no more Seth Rogan, man, uh, after that. I was just like, this is horrible, dude. I kind of did, I gotta be honest.

Craig 19:22

I oversaturated, totally agree. Shawn the end had like a third act, and instead of this being a story about the dangers of communism, it became the dangers of overconsumption and on the nose about capitalism. So here's Andy Cirkis, who decides that he's gonna take George Orwell's original source material and then turn it into something about the modern day era. Maybe that's not such a far stretch because I want to talk about George Orwell himself, which actually is quite an interesting story. But fundamentally, the execution of it all was so terrible in this movie. Napoleon and the pigs, what do they do? Well, they not surprisingly do what George Orwell tried to portray. They accumulate power, but it's in concert with I don't even remember the bloody woman, but it's Glenn Close.

Shawn 20:15

Glenn Close plays the character, and she's sort of uh you know, they probably deny it, but she's Elon Musk. Let's like just in female.

Craig 20:21

She's driving like an Elon Musk.

Shawn 20:23

Like one of those cyber trucks. And like, come on, like it's just that on the nose or what?

Craig 20:27

So brutal. Yeah.

Shawn 20:28

But she she all the characters are just so unforgettable and terrible that you don't even remember the names. You're like, I fucking care.

Susie 20:35

Yeah, that you didn't make you know the pig or the care who this character was. That's exactly right, Susie.

Shawn 20:41

They didn't make you care. There's no gradual progression from the pigs, like being equal with all the other animals, and then gradually becoming corrupted and like having this sort of thing where all of a sudden at the end you're going, Oh my god, they're one of them now. You know, like the humans look like the pigs and the pigs look like the humans, and there's none of that. It just jumps right away to the pigs sort of taking over everything.

Craig 21:02

And she was supposed to be like Mr. Pilkington in the original animal farm. But so what ends up happening, you know, four legs good, two legs bad become four legs good, two legs better. And essentially the pigs are walking on their hineys and they're wearing the dressing up like capitalists.

Shawn 21:19

And and the biggest one, of course, is is all animals are created equal, yeah, except some, and then it some changes to some animals are more equal than others. Yeah.

Craig 21:31

Those are all part of the original, you know, Orwell bit, and so they kind of play off all of those details, but then it just becomes fucking stupid.

Shawn 21:41

So stupid.

Craig 21:42

Like all it really was, it was a hot mess of the pigs end up just buying technology and like iPad things and cars.

Shawn 21:52

There's a pool party with the pigs, and there's a love interest, a pig love interest. It's almost like Animal House. Let's do Animal House. This would be better. So they're parting like it's Animal House and they fucking have what was it, like this whole Ocean's 11 No, they had like an Ocean's Eleven like ending where they all gonna they're gonna break into the the casino or wherever the hell it's a casino, right? Yeah and they're gonna it's just so stupid. I don't even know. Exactly. It's like they they they break into to flood the dam and embarrass Napoleon, right, in front of the corporation. And and then what they end up doing is flooding the farm, right? But it's so stupid, man. None of this is in the book. And by the way, they've this is the biggest insult to George Orwell. They give Animal Farm a happy ending. Now, if anybody's read the book, and of course, we love the book. The book is great. The end is Benjamin and some of the other farm animals staring in, watching this poker game going on between the pigs and the humans. They're playing cards, and they realize that the pigs are wearing clothes and now they're standing on two feet and they get in some kind of an argument or something, and they realize that the humans and the pigs are the same now. And none of that happens in the movie. The new movie.

Susie 23:06

The new movie.

Shawn 23:07

Of course, yeah. It's a happy ending. Like it sort of leaves like, oh, we're actually gonna be okay. And like isn't it? That's the humans come to the farm and they're selling things. And honestly, God, I don't You were asleep by now. You well, when the movie I think you took some medication for that limp.

Craig 23:22

The funny part is while you were putting your pants back on at the end of the movie, I take me a while. I was literally walking out of the theater. I couldn't be well, first of all, I'll just get leaked, but let's talk about that.

Shawn 23:32

Not the leak part, but walking out of the theater because I remember this. And the best part of the film, before I forget, is actually the credits. And I'm not being funny. I'm being they show these pictures of the pigs throughout history. Now get this. So they show like the pigs in World War I, and one of them is like the Red Baron, and then they show like eat the pigs building the pyramids with the other pig whipping them like there's slaves, and like they're showing these great moments, not great, but these big moments in history. And then I'm like, oh, they're gonna show the Russian Revolution and they'll have the pigs. That's what the fucking book's about, dude. And they don't show it. I'm like, nothing. And then they have these QR codes, right? And then so I saw you with your with your phone. I was too slow. You were too slow. You know what those you want to know what those QR codes were? So here you go. No, here's what the QR codes are about. One of them is is it like a GoFundMe for the movie? No, so capitalism. No, I'm not joking. And then the other one is actually quite clever, which is too bad the movie wasn't. The other one is is like a tell us what you think, but it's like negative, give us negative feedback kind of a thing. And then it says, You are wrong. You will be it's a joke, right? It's like a you're and so if they had more clever, if they had more of that in the film, it would it would have it would have been great. Where was that in the movie? That sort of that, you know, it is a buy

Animal Farm Characters As History

Shawn 25:00

buy more tickets so that more movies like this will be made. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Have you seen this movie?

Craig 25:06

Okay, guys, indulge me here. I want to I want to just go over some of the major.

Shawn 25:10

I think we've indulged you enough, dude. We're doing animal farm.

Craig 25:13

I want to talk about some of the animals because I think this is what makes the whole animal farm.

Shawn 25:17

I thought you were gonna break down the Russian Revolution for us in 30 seconds, just for the for the casual listener out there, so they know.

Craig 25:23

Okay. They have no old major in there.

Shawn 25:26

I don't yes, that's right. They don't have old major or Jones, really.

Craig 25:30

And he's like the prized white boar. He's old in the original, and then he dies quickly. He's supposed to represent Karl Marx.

Shawn 25:37

Okay. So the father of communism.

Craig 25:40

Exactly. And he serves as the ideological founder of animalism, which is communism. Yeah, the kind of religion that is that becomes communism, and inspires the animals to rebel against human oppression. So uh his speech introduces ideas of equality, collective ownership, and revolution. And so he dies, and then you have the revolution that unfolds against the humans, yeah, against the human Mr. Jones. Right. Mr. Jones runs away, and then Napoleon, and there's two major characters in this. There's Napoleon, who is supposed to be Stalin, and then there is Snowball, who's supposed to be Trotsky. That was all fine while Vladimir Lenin was alive. Uh, but when Lenin dies in 1924, there is an infighting between the two. Lenin is the visionary, Trotsky's kind of like the systems guy. So here's Napoleon. He's like very much like the character of Stalin. He's calculating, he's secretive, he's ruthless, authoritarian, and very power-driven. And then Snowball, also a pig. He's intelligent, he's persuasive, he's energetic, he's idealistic and innovative. But Napoleon realizes that Snowball's got to go. So he turns on, this is exactly this is what plays out in history. I mean, Stalin basically starts eliminating all his immediate competitors, and Trotsky has literally has to go on the run, leaves Russia, spends some time in Europe, and then eventually settles in Mexico.

Shawn 27:06

And then gets an ice pick in the back of the head.

Craig 27:08

Exactly. Gets taken out by Stalin. Great way to go. Which actually has an interesting Canadian kind of connection to that. But here you have He was banging Frida.

Shawn 27:18

Did you know that? I found that out. Oh, I mean, who wasn't, right? But explains a lot of those pictures she painted.

Susie 27:26

Those eyebrows.

Shawn 27:27

Yeah.

Susie 27:28

Just so alluring.

Shawn 27:29

She's amazing, obviously.

Craig 27:31

This is the thing that I find so interesting about ultra-leftism. It's like the manipulation of people. And you know, I don't know. You have you ever heard of the term useful idiots?

Shawn 27:41

Is this a setup?

Craig 27:42

No, it's not a setup.

Shawn 27:45

It's sure looking like a setup from the way you you looked at me when you said that.

Craig 27:50

In society, there's always a number of people who are um influenceable, who are told, you know, and it's gonna sound a little bit harsh, who aren't terribly bright, and who hear these things that sound great and right and just, and then they are the perfect for tools of manipulation. That'd be a great name for a band.

Shawn 28:13

Tools of manipulation. No, um, useful idiots. Useful idiots, yeah. Yeah, garage band out of San Francisco. No, out of Portland. Garage band out of Portland, useful idiots. Okay, that's that's what we're going with.

Craig 28:25

So other characters, and uh so I want to weave this together. We got Squealer, he's also a pig, so he's smooth talking, it's he's manipulative, he's persuasive, he's deceptive. So, what do you think position he's gonna be good at?

Shawn 28:36

Uh propaganda.

Craig 28:37

Absolutely. He becomes the spokesman and propagandist. Yes, yes, and then you got one. Then you got Boxer, right? Boxer is the cart horse. He's tough, he's big, he's a hard worker, and he's strong, he's loyal, he's hardworking, trustworthy, and self-sacrificing, which we know because he worked his tail off to build that windmill and all those other things. So he's the primary laborer and symbolic worker of the farm in the Bolshevik communist system. He represents the exploited working class and the ideal Soviet labor. But Boxer, again, is not too bright. Like he just goes, he believes in it, right? He wholeheartedly into the idea. But then you got Clover, which who wasn't in this latest movie, by the way. No, another cut out a lot of characters. Yeah, weirdly. And Clover was the cart horse, also, who's gentle, compassionate. Like, I would, is it fair to call this one an useful idiot? You know, loyal, emotionally perceptive, but also believes in this the power and that it's doing good. You know, those people out there who are like who just see the world in a very good, positive way. They don't have any kind of like DNA that sees the world and untrustworthy. We they're beautiful people. We need those people, but they're also the ones that go, oh, well, this person's in power. I I trust them. So Clover is the classic. But they said, Call me Clover. So as I was describing this, uh, Shawn and Susie both put their hands up. So then you got Benjamin the donkey.

Shawn 30:15

Oh, that's me. That is definitely me. I don't know. Cynical.

Craig 30:20

Well, that's right. Cynical, intelligent, skeptical, emotionally reserved. He's the guy who like is you know symbolizes that kind of person who's politically aware, who recognizes corruption and tyranny, but just stays passive, disengaged, resigned to the whole thing. And he's kind of like Eeyore, like, whatever.

Shawn 30:37

Smokes a lot of weed.

Susie 30:39

Super chill.

Craig 30:40

That's him. And you know, and he's he's the kind of guy who's like donkeys live a long time. He's seen a lot, he's seen the world a lot. He understands that he he so he doesn't gotta get caught up emotionally into the the nonsense. Then you got Molly. I don't even remember Molly. Uh not the drug, but the white mare. Molly is supposed to be vain, shallow, materialistic, comfort seeking. I don't even know if Molly was in the movie. She wasn't what movie, yeah. So Molly, which is actually really interesting.

Susie 31:10

She wasn't in the original movie. No, she came in later.

Craig 31:13

Well, Molly was the the mare, the white mare, the pretty mare who liked ribbons in her hair.

Shawn 31:19

Oh, that liked the farmers taking care of her and that.

Craig 31:23

Yes.

Shawn 31:23

I think I think that's the merge.

Craig 31:25

Yeah, Molly represents the individual who is drawn by the things of luxury and status. And feels safety with with exactly personal comfort.

Shawn 31:35

With the humans.

Craig 31:37

And so here is here are the humans who are you know providing all of these kind of luxuries and creature comforts, ideology or you know, virtue or or kind of revolution be damned. She's a simple white mare. This is what she wants. Interesting that Annie Serkis didn't have her in that because that I think is a very important characteristic. Then they did have Moses. Yeah. So Moses in the original is the Raven, the storyteller, manipulative, escapist, religious.

Shawn 32:10

He's not used in the 54 or or at all in the in the new version. You're gonna tell him no well, he was the drone. The drone, that's right. But the drone is like obviously doesn't have any speaking.

Craig 32:22

Yeah, so they replaced the raven for the drones, which I think was actually quite creative.

Shawn 32:28

Oh, so you like it now? Oh, wow, this really turned it around for you. And how often is the drone in the film?

Susie 32:34

Yeah, technology turned it around for him.

Shawn 32:36

For him, shocking. But the problem is it's in it's in the movie for two seconds. Legit.

Craig 32:40

Yeah. The drone. The drone doesn't reflect what the raven was supposed to represent, which is organized religion, especially the Russian Orthodox Church, and reflects religion's uneasy relationship with the Soviet state. And in the end, in the book, the original animal farm, George Orwell's version, the raven was always allowed to be around. By the end, the pigs were feeding it a little bit of beer or whatever was alcohol and giving it its food, even though it was saying, Hey, I've flown up into the sky, you know, heaven, you know.

Shawn 33:12

And I've seen sugar land. And I've seen you know, heaven. That's what they called it.

Craig 33:17

But the Soviets saw that as convenient because as the Soviet system kind of became an era of drudgery, because the whole it was supposed to create a worker's paradise, but in the end, it created a worker's hell. And so the idea was oh, the Moses is an important element because if you work hard through this lifetime, then there will be a happy ending. If well, not that happy ending, but you know what I mean, right? A happy ending. I think the last couple of things that I want to talk about. One of them is the dogs you mentioned. The dogs are the secret police. Exactly. The violent, obedient, intimidating. They're the NKVD, and they symbolize the use of fear, violence, and political repression to maintain this authoritarian control. They are Napoleon's attack dogs. And then you have Mr. Wimper. They had Mr. Wimper, he's actually human, he's supposed to be human in the movie, and he was. He was he was a banker, and that was smart. They did they did use that was Steve Bushimi.

Shawn 34:18

That was the best voice on the thing like that.

Craig 34:20

As Napoleon gets a little bit more sophisticated and starts communicating with Frederick and Pilkington and and the other, you know, human um farmhouses and trades with him and stuff like this. Uh Wimper was supposed to be the intermediary between animals and humans, but really between the Soviet system and capitalist nations. So that's also a brilliant messaging about how as much as they tried to use the communist system, they end up becoming reliant on the capitalist system. And then you got the sheep, of course. And they're mindless, conformist, obedient, repetitive, and of course, the slogan, you know, four legs bad.

Shawn 35:00

Okay, we got that one.

Craig 35:02

No, no, let me do that one again. Four legs good. I keep fucking this up.

Shawn 35:07

I I mean, I would you want me to write it on a big cue card for you?

Craig 35:11

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, yeah, there are a few other characters, but we're gonna round them off all the kind of the essential components to it. So you have just declared yourself to be clover.

Shawn 35:23

Oh, I'm actually all of the all of the animals because I'm a Gemini, first of all. So second of all, second of all, I'm at one time or another, I'm all of these animals. I'm Napoleon, I'm yeah, I'm the sheep, I'm Clover. I could be any of them, dude.

Craig 35:38

Whatever you feel that day.

Shawn 35:39

Exactly. Yeah, what would you I'm a sheep right now? Why am I sitting here doing I should be talking about Michael Jackson?

Craig 35:46

That's what we should be doing.

Susie 35:48

Okay, next time I think to do that.

Craig 35:49

Any ideas who I should be? Who you think I am?

Shawn 35:52

Well, we obviously we've said Napoleon already. Oh uh, but I don't know. I think you could be a few of the characters. Susie, I mean, this is a loaded question, but I mean, who do you think? Yeah, well you can be a little snowball because when you you have good intentions, you know, but you get your head wrapped around them, you just can't see through the forest. You just gotta get your idea done. Yeah. And and you know, you what they say, the road to hell is paved with great intentions. And we are sitting in hell right now.

Craig 36:21

Okay, so I'm Trotsky.

Shawn 36:23

Sure, he likes that. He's like, yeah, yeah. Hey, give me that ice pick, by the way, Sue.

Susie 36:28

That's right. Watch out.

Craig 36:29

As

The Orwell Documentary And Dread

Craig 36:30

we transition and talk about George Orwell, you have watched that documentary.

Shawn 36:35

I I recommended the documentary uh six months ago. Yeah. Uh way before you're right. Way before you're little. Hey, come on. Like, Shawn's credit was done showing. Can we just talk about me and and and this recommendation? No.

Craig 36:47

It's called George Orwell 2 plus 2 equals 5. I had to pay for it. I thought it'd be on streaming, but I had to pay for it.

Shawn 36:53

George Orwell's rolling over in his grave because you had to pay for it. Exactly.

Susie 36:58

It wasn't available to the masses.

Shawn 37:00

I I'll just say really quickly, I I've seen it twice. Um, and it's a great, great documentary, but fuck, it's I was so depressed after I watched it.

Craig 37:09

I thought it was really well done. I thought it was really creative. I felt like there was a couple of moments that I didn't like.

Shawn 37:14

I I knew you were gonna say that. I the only just to follow up with what I just said is that it's just the the world repeating itself in so many ways, and you sort of have that feeling like, oh, we're just gonna go through this over and over again. Because they show you a lot of what's happening right now in the world with his voiceover over top. Yeah, yeah. And it's very effective. Now, I understand what you're saying because I thought a lot of it was manipulated to to to evoke certain reactions out of me. Totally, right? But saying that, I thought it was really an interesting way to tell a doc to do a documentary, didn't you? You've never seen anything like that, I didn't think.

Craig 37:54

But I think if you're a Molly and you're watching that documentary, you're going, oh yeah, you know, the world's bad. Andy Serkis version was uh verging on full-blown anti-capitalism.

Shawn 38:14

Which is funny. It's like, yeah, buy a ticket to our movie, oh, and get some popcorn too. And anti-capitalism.

Craig 38:20

What makes me laugh is that when you look at all these movies that are, you know, whether it be Disney or even small angel, they talk about, you know, socialism and the virtues of it, but really they're there to make money. I'm gonna I just want I'm gonna throw out some numbers and get people just thinking global real GDP per capita has increased about 13 fold since 1820. And the United States increased about 35 fold. The percentage of the world population living in extreme poverty fell from 79% to nine percent over roughly the same historical period.

Susie 38:55

Wow.

Craig 38:56

Craig 38:56

That to me is phenomenal. That's capitalism, and and the funny thing is that in this day uh in this age of social media, where you have people by the way, most youth between the ages of like kind of teenagers to 30, get most, I think half of them get their information from social media, their news.

Susie 39:16

Yeah.

Craig 39:16

But because so much talk is about anti-capitalism, and as a result of that, people have adopted this this idea that there's got to be truth to this.

Shawn 39:26

Because it's it's it's on my phone.

Craig 39:28

That's right. And and the psychology of it, then there's studies done on this. If you hear things enough times, if you hear something repeated enough times, you believe it to be true. And which is why, which is a storyline in an animal farm. Exactly. In 2018, a Gallup poll found that 56% of Americans viewed capitalism positively. This was down from 61% in 2010. Now, among ages of 18 to 29, the positive views of capitalism dropped from 68%, so a clear majority, to 45% between 2010 and 2018 at the same time that social media hit the ground running. Among the same age group, 51% viewed socialism positively compared with 45% for capitalism. Fascinating. And Gen Z, Gen Z and Millennials are the ones who have really shifted. I think from what I understand, during the polling, a lot of these youth don't even understand what socialism is. They or communism or leftism or collectivism. They're

Social Media, Socialism, And Belief

Craig 40:40

just simply drawn to the idea that the government should do more. This really is a perfect time to talk about George Orwell's life. He was born in 1903, Matahari, India. His actual name was Eric Blair. From that point, his mother says, I'm leaving. Head back to England. He ends up going into grammar school. He apparently hated it, found it like a fascist system. But then he went to Eton College. Now, this is the interesting thing because he calls himself a lower upper middle class. I mean, that's specific.

Susie 41:25

Lower upper middle class. Yeah. Okay.

Craig 41:27

For Canadians, I think it's or Americans, I think that concept is a little bit difficult. It's a very British concept. And I in British people corner really will understand that.

Susie 41:35

Yeah.

Craig 41:36

He was raised in an environment where he looked up to the prestigious upper class. He was able to play the upper class a bit. He was apparently bright as hell. He did very well in Eton College, which is a very prestigious boys' school, what we would call a high school.

Susie 41:55

Private.

Craig 41:56

Yeah. Or what they call public. Yeah. Apparently did quite well for himself. He really loved the environment. So here he is. He's lower, upper middle class, goes to a very prestigious school, enjoys himself. And so after his time at Eton College, he then does go to Burma. On a whim, he joins the Imperial Service police. He's now the part of the Imperial Service.

Shawn 42:20

Part of the machine. Part of the machines that he would fight so hard against later in his life, right?

Craig 42:26

And he, I think, became loathsome about his whole experience there and really became to hate the imperialist system.

Shawn 42:33

He needed that experience though to get where he was gonna go.

Craig 42:36

That's right. He comes back from that in 1927 and 20, 1928. He comes back and then he decides that he wants to be a regular old guy. And he lives in Paris and London, among the poor, among the working class. I think what really captures this guy, he's just a curious dude. I think he's one of those guys who's got this itch.

Shawn 42:56

We always wanted to be a writer, too. So that was always something in his, you know, he had to get out.

Craig 43:01

His introversion allowed him to kind of sit back and just observe.

Shawn 43:09

So he was a creative person, but also um, you know, an observer of history, obviously.

Craig 43:14

He is, you know, realizing that who are these working class people? Like he he even apparently talks about how they kind of smell and they're you know, but he's drawn to them. So he's he's like this, he's got this curiosity or this itch that he's trying to scratch. So like you said, he works with the BBC for a bit. That was later in 41 to 43. But let's go back to the Spanish Civil War because that is the most important bit. He gets married and then decides, like, really within a couple of months or six months, he's like, I'm leaving. I'm gonna go and fight the fascists.

Shawn 43:48

This is Franco, right?

Craig 43:50

This is this is right.

Shawn 43:51

This is Franco?

Craig 43:52

So yeah, in the Spanish Civil War, you have the socialists, the leftists, the Republicans, the communists, they're all that that's That's why it's a hot mess, the Spanish Civil War, because on the kind of centrist to the left, you got a whole amalgam of people. You got the moderates all the way to the radical communists. And then you've got the conservatives who are fascists, ultra nationalists, and he wants to go out and fight fascists. So he gets there. He learns quite quickly that the POUM, which is the Marxist militia, is is being s increasingly,

George Orwell’s Life And Turning Point

Craig 44:30

increasingly influenced by the Stalinist element. Stalin and the Soviet Union is backing this financially. But because there's a Stalinist component to it, it's ruthless. And it's that ruthlessness where he's watching them just basically eliminate and execute anyone who is considered in their mind dangerous. He saw something that shook him. Now that didn't mean that he just became anti-communist that moment. What he did is became anti-Stalinist. And this is what ultimately I think what's so interesting about George Orwell is that George Orwell doesn't become himself a right winger. He's actually has always been a left of center. He's a socialist. He was so worried about what he saw in the Spanish Civil War that he worried that in England, that's why the original Animal Farm is set in England, because he was worried about the Stalinists in England would then create this same extreme authoritarian brutal regime. He was worried that that would then override and overpower the socialist, what we today would call democratic socialist system. You know, just kind of left of center taxation for you know universal health care, government programs, and so on and so forth. He's an anti-communist, but ultimately he's a Democrat, and he's ultimately he is a socialist. From that experience, saw two things in his life, the two extremes, the British imperialist system, and then he saw, of course, the authoritarian system of Stalin and other extreme radical elements of leftism. And so, where did he end up came back to the center? And I think that is why I wanted to talk about this so much, because we can't flirt with those extremes. In 1943, I think is when he really snapped out of it. It's almost like he and I do find this is so interesting.

Shawn 46:29

Oh good, because I am hanging on by a fucking thread over here.

Craig 46:33

The influence of left ultra-leftism, it almost has a because it speaks in this language of justice, who doesn't like that stuff, right? You get so caught up in these movements that that you lose sight of what this is all about. And interestingly, you have a lot of people now, young youth in their 20s, going, I got caught up in it, and I've now I'm snapped out of it. Like George Orwell did. I'm the snap, I I got so caught up in it. I was never challenged. And when you're in that world, it's an echo chamber and uh groupthink and all these things.

Shawn 47:06

It reminds me of the uh the the riots in Vancouver. Do you remember all the kids that got caught up in those riots? Because they were a part of that after the hockey games. Yeah. And then later on, they of course hugely regret their actions, but they were so caught up in that that energy. So, Susie, you were forced into this. You were dragged into this kind of thing. We didn't even know if you were gonna be a part of this podcast.

Susie 47:31

Well, I I was which I completely understand. I was on the verge of opting out of this one because a lot of what you're talking about, and a lot of this is bringing up things about like growing up and going to high school and all the things that I wasn't that good at. Yes, and hey, I was not very good.

Shawn 47:49

Hi, I'm over here too.

Susie 47:50

Analyzing.

Shawn 47:51

I'm the same as you.

Susie 47:52

And I we all went to the same school, and I don't know how I didn't get that book because I never did read that book. And now I know, listening to your analysis of the book, why I probably didn't read the book. Yeah, I wouldn't have read it or been able to analyze it that way. I'm just not the political person. So, I mean, I know more now than I did then, but I just No, and I was in the same boat. And then I tried to watch um the 1954. 1954, and it started out okay, but it just wasn't it.

Shawn 48:21

And then you fell asleep. It was too didn't you get didn't you get one of those D-Box chairs in here for her? Are we gonna install one of those?

Craig 48:29

That's a great idea.

Shawn 48:30

Everything she watches now, she's in the D box. Strap her in the D-Box! She's gotta stay awake. You're like a child that we put into the high chair. Put her in the booster seat.

Susie 48:38

She needs to stay awake for this one.

Shawn 48:40

First of all, I commend you for even going and watching that at all. Uh but actually, I gotta say, I enjoyed it. Yeah. And I never would have seen it had we had I not been dragged by this limping quasimoto guy through the east through East Vancouver to see this film. So I I do appreciate that. But but yeah, no, I was in the same boat. I I was like, wait, this is gonna go way political, way too political for me.

Susie 49:11

Like to sit here going, like, oh am I clover? Let's be honest.

Shawn 49:15

Nobody Am I just clover? I'm a sheep. Nobody, nobody's listened listening anyway, so we're good. We're good on that angle.

Susie 49:23

But I'm good at other things. Yeah.

Shawn 49:25

No, I mean, if we were talking about, you know, Animal House, then I'd be, I'd be, I'd be the guy. I'd be a smart guy over there. I'm pointing at Craig right now. Yeah, yeah.

Craig 49:35

You know who I think I I would be? I think I'd be Boxer.

Shawn 49:40

Now you're giving yourself way too much credit.

Craig 49:42

Yeah?

Shawn 49:43

No, Boxer's a good guy, man. Like, he's a hardworking good guy. Like, you know, like just puts his head down. That early puts his head down.

Susie 49:52

But you said Boxer wasn't that smart, so I didn't say that you weren't Boxer.

Shawn 49:56

Oh, maybe you are a Boxer then. Now that you're saying it. He's a hard worker. I'm getting nothing from this crowd tonight. Whoa, folks, you need a few more drinks before we get into the second set here. Yeah. Beat what I told you. We're all of these animals.

Craig 50:12

Yeah.

Shawn 50:14

Aren't we all of these animals?

Craig 50:16

People say about George Orwell. He's all of us, and he's in the world.

Shawn 50:21

That's the point, isn't it? That we we are all of these creatures. Thank God. What a great outro. No kidding. Got it. Group hug. Group hug.

Which Animal Are We

Shawn 50:30

We are all of these creatures, is the point.

Craig 50:35

So, Shawn, do you think it was worth it?

Shawn 50:38

Going to the film or going with doing this podcast?

Craig 50:41

Doing this particular episode in animal form?

Shawn 50:44

I'm on the fence.

Susie 50:45

No, I talk to me after the editing process.

Shawn 50:51

It was one that you had to do to get out of your system. Right? You like to do some of these every now and again. And I just want to talk about 80s movies. I know. That's that's me, right? And Craig can't wrap anything around that.

Susie 51:03

So it kind of I didn't feel like I was a good support on this, but the more you talked about the political, it's just clarifying to me why I knew that I wasn't gonna that that is not my wheelhouse.

Shawn 51:15

But we are not a political show. And like and and and people are gonna You are? Yeah. We're not you are. You never answered the question, by the way. What was it? Do kids still read Animal Farm in in school?

Craig 51:28

No, I did. I answered that question. Oh, I must have zoned out zoned out. Because I said it's now English versus peoples.

Susie 51:34

Yeah, they don't they've taken away all those books.

Shawn 51:36

So they don't read it. It's not their gone.

Craig 51:39

So it's there's no time for it.

Susie 51:40

But if you have a specific teacher that likes that and and has re-studied that themselves, maybe they can squeeze that in.

Shawn 51:48

Yeah, I think a hard read. Well, it's all down to the teacher because I remember Mrs. uh showing us Apocalypse Now. Oh right, which is also loosely based on um uh what's the book? Conrad uh Conrad Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. Yeah, Heart of Darkness. So they didn't call that Heart of Darkness, they called it Apocalypse Now. Yeah, but see, that's what I mean. We go right back to the to the film again. Shouldn't call it Animal Farm if you're gonna change all of the plot points and add characters and take characters up. What's the point?

Craig 52:18

Yeah, yeah.

Final Takeaways And Next Week

Shawn 52:20

There's my political saying.

Craig 52:22

I love it.

Shawn 52:23

There it is.

Susie 52:24

Got it. What's the point?

Shawn 52:26

Well, next week we're gonna talk about uh Odyssey. We're gonna talk about um Odyssey. No, it's not out till July there, dude.

Craig 52:34

Oh the next one is gonna be...

Shawn 52:40

It's gonna be Spielberg.

Craig 52:41

Spielberg.

Shawn 52:41

Yeah, we're very excited because we're gonna be going to see, and Susie, you're gonna love this. We're gonna see aliens. We're going to see uh uh what's it called? Disclosure day, and there's an 11 p.m. showing, and we're very excited about it. Get the D-Box warmed up.

Susie 52:55

We're gonna get a D-box because that's the only way I'm going at the time.

Craig 52:58

And on that note, fuck yeah, we're done.

Shawn 53:00

Thanks for listening to Basket Traffic.

Craig 53:03

Bye bye.

Susie 53:04

Bye.

Craig 53:13

And so that sets the stage for him to write Animal Farm. Published, comes out in 1945. Hey, move your basket.